How to Succeed as an Introvert  in Sales, Networking and Goal Setting with Matthew Pollard

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My guest today is an introvert.  That might not be significant, until you hear him communicate.  You’ll see that he defies many of our preconceived notions about introverts.  In fact his career has taken him places that we wouldn’t think introverts would naturally go: sales and public speaking.

Matthew Pollard is a speaker, author, and coach who is believes that introverts have an edge in life — and he’s dedicated his work to helping them (or should I say “us”), find and use that edge.

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In this episode you’ll learn:

  • What is Matthew’s passion
  • How to tell if you are an introvert
  • How being an introvert is an advantage
  • How taking time off/gap years was key to finding what Matthew really want
  • How Matthew started in sales
  • How Matthew became the no. 1 sale person in his company even as an introvert
  • How Matthew learns as an introvert
  • Matthew’s belief about how to succeed and why people fail due to their mindset
  • Why Matthew quit his sales job at 19 and started his own Business
  • Matthew’s first venture/business
  • How fear affects our decisions
  • How to discover what you’re really passionate about

Resources Mentioned:

Matthew’s website

The Introvert’s Edge to Networking: Work the Room. Leverage Social Media. Develop Powerful Connections 

The Introvert’s Edge: How the Quiet and Shy Can Outsell Anyone

Software Generated Transcription:

Dan: Matthew.

Thank you so much for joining me. Welcome to The Meaning Movement podcast.

Matthew: Dan, I’m ecstatic to be here. Thanks for having me.


Dan: I love it. Uh, the question I like to start with is how do you begin to talk about the work that you.

Matthew: You know, it’s interesting. I, I think that if I was to communicate, the thing I’m most passionate about is that I’m, I’m really passionate about helping introverts realize that they’re not second class citizens, that their path to success is just different to that of an extrovert. And I’m really on a mission to help.

Other introverts, more specifically introverted service providers realize they can have a rapid growth business doing what they love, but not by hiding away, getting better at their functional skill, but focusing on the things, outside the scope of their functional skill, that really allow them to create a business that revolves around them, their family and their life, not trying to survive and having their, their, their work, which become their, their total obsession dominate.


Dan: I love that. I love that. And so much there that I, that I. wanna Unpack and, and get into, but before we do, just to, to rewind, like tell me about your, tell me about your story. Like, how did you, how did you get to ? I wanna say, so, you know, with entrepreneur, well, you are an entrepreneur. We’ll talk about that, but like yow always ask, you know, I, I usually ask something that, did you always think of yourself as entrepreneur?

So did you always think of yourself as an introvert? Right? Like that’s the kinda the parallel question here. So it’s 

Matthew: Well, I think the answer for both is, is no. So, um, I, I mean, I always knew there was something different I was very, you know, an inward in my thinking and no, there was just, you know, I wasn’t, as quick as everyone else on my feet, I think, you know, I I’d see people tell jokes and I didn’t even get them until the moment had passed or, you know, people would ask me questions and in the moment had not just passed, but it was like yesterday.

Um, and where, before I realized what it was that I was going to say. And the truth is that while that sounds like a disadvantage, it was in, in, in retrospect, it was a huge advantage because I’m very reflective and with some planning and some preparation, which introverts are great at the skillset that we think we’re terrible at were actually amazing at as a matter of fact, I think introverts can outsell out network out, lead out, be be the visionary in the business that everybody wishes they could be.

because it’s actually more of a methodical process than it is a winged process, like extroverts to, you know, tend to, uh, focus on. And that’s not to say that extroverts can’t do those things well, but they tend not to follow process and systems and process and systems will always outperform somebody winging something.

And by the way, introverts are terrible at winging things. So we sh definitely shouldn’t do that. But for me, I discovered that I was an introvert only, really when I started to. Really understand the limitations that I, I thought that I had and then start to work out ways around them. And then what I realized is there was a word for what I was feeling, and that was, that was, that was introversion.

But by the way, it isn’t a limitation. You know, our path to success is, is just different. Uh, and that’s what I realized when I moved into the world of entrepreneurship. And even before that, into the world of sales now, A lot of people. And I, I wanna be clear about this. A lot of people are probably hearing me speak right now and saying, there’s no way this person’s an introvert.

He’s articulate. He’s very clear. He’s very direct in what he’s speaking about. Again, with planning and preparation and 150 interviews behind your belt, um, or under your belt, you can be very clear if you get me chatting about something, that’s not my comfort zone. Something that I’m perhaps not passionate about or something that I haven’t practiced and rehearsed.

well I actually tend to have more of a word solid more often than not, and I can get caught out. So because of that, you know, I’m very, you know, because I’m speaking about my zone of genius. Like every business owner should, it’s actually a lot easier. But when I talk about this, a lot of people, project extroversion on me and other people like Zig Ziglar, the, you know, the most well known sales trainer in the world was also an introvert.

They project extroversion because we know we can’t do those things. We can. do just our path is different. So for me, what happened was, I mean, in late high school, I had a reading speed of a sixth grader. I was horribly introverted. I mean, I got diagnosed with this thing called irlen syndrome, which basically means I put on this funny pair of color lenses for the people that are on watching this on video and miraculously, I can, I can learn to read now.

I can’t learn to read like everybody else. Is at that age, I could start the process of learning. So for me, the last two years of high school were horrific. I worked so hard, but I did manage to get into the top 20% of my state, but my whole family could see, I was exhausted. I had no idea what I wanted to do.

And if I spent the next, you know, years in college, I would’ve spun out because if you dunno what you wanna do and you find it really difficult, chances of success are much lower. So we all agreed. I was gonna take a. year to Find myself and I’m sure some people, you know, have had kids that do that now. You know, I’m not, I


Dan: we’ve done it ourselves? 

Matthew: well, 

that, that 

Dan: the right audience.

Matthew: Well, that’s it. And I think, you know, and truthfully I’ve done it more than once, right? Where I’ve taken some time, you know, in 2000, and it’s a whole new story, but, you know, um, you know, in 2013 I did it again. I took a year to find myself, but the, the thing was for me that I, I went, you know what? I have no idea what I wanna do.

So let’s take a job at a real estate agency. And before you think it, I wasn’t out selling, I was the guy in the back office doing data entry with a look at my face. Don’t speak to me. I’m Here to discover myself. But three weeks into that job, I got told that I was out of work. They decided they were shutting down the office.

And that was it. I worked there three weeks. I’m now outta work. This is Christmas time in Australia, which for everybody it’s summer at Christmas time. So we take a month off. We go away on the 20th of December. We don’t come back till the 15th or, or 20th of January. So if you’re an employer you’re not hiring, but I had to get a job.

So the only jobs I could find were these things called commission, only sales. roles So I remember going, um, to a couple of interviews, which were terrifying to apply for. And then, you know, I applied, I, I got three interviews from the three things I applied for. I, I even got, you know, free job offers and I’m like, maybe they see something in me.

I don’t see in myself. Well, no, I got told pretty quickly. They hire everyone. They have this saying, you throw mud up against the wall. You see what sticks? I was the. mud

five days, product training, not a second of sales, um, sales training. I get thrown on this road called Sydney road in Melbourne Australia, go sell.

I didn’t even know what to say. So I go to walk in the first door. I was luckily politely told to leave. Then I was sworn at then I was told to get a real job, which was always my favorite. The only job I could get. And that just happened door after door until my 93rd door where I made my first sale. And I remember I made about $70 and then I had my, a realization.

I gotta do this again tomorrow and the next day and that wasn’t. Okay. Now for a lot of people that are listening, we’re talking about transitions. We tend to say, well, these are our limitations. We can’t break free of them. And more often than not, introverts will say, I don’t have gift of Gabs. So clearly sales is one of those things.

I’m just gonna have to deal with that. I refused to believe that lady luck was going to be the only thing that qualified, whether I was gonna succeed or fail. And I was gonna always be a little bit less lucky than the extroverts. So I went well, how am I gonna learn a system? Because truthfully sales had to be a system on my year was gonna be horrible.

And I went to YouTube and I literally typed in sales system and all these videos came up and I just went every day. I’d spend eight hours out in the field, applying what I learned, eight hours at home practicing the next step weekends I’d spend 16 hours practicing, which by the way, doesn’t sound fun to anyone.

I’m sure that’s listening, but within six weeks, I mean, I, I mean, within a week or so, it was down to, you know, 65 doors, then 41 doors, then 22 and then 19, then 12, then nine, then three. Eventually I got it down to making a sale. Every three doors.

Dan: Wow.

Matthew: About six weeks in my manager pulls me aside. I thought I’d done something wrong.

Cuz he looked horrified is the best example thing I can say. But he said, Matt, we just got our national sales figures back then before technology. What it was that came once a month, turns out you’re the number one salesperson in the company, which happened to be the largest sales and marketing company in the Southern hemisphere, which blew them away.

Cause I was the quiet guy. I handed my paperwork in downstairs, spoke to nobody. So then they. said Your management material. I have no idea why they think if you’re good at sales, you can manage. They’re like, don’t worry. We give you 20 people. It’s mud up against the wall. We’ll see what sticks. We’ll know one stuck They all quit. 24. hours Back to YouTube. I went to learn how to manage turns out. Introverts could do that too with a system and process. Well, fast forward, just, you know, shy of a year. I’ve been, I’ve promoted seven times. I ended up the ahead of, um, the state manager for the head office state, and then, you know, fast forward, just shy of a decade.

I’d been responsible for five multimillion dollar success stories. And all of it came down to, I. beleive Me saying, if there was a way, what would it be? And then a willingness to do the work to actually apply that system. And I think what happens is most people will either be defined by the barriers they believe or perceive that they have.

And then secondly, even if they do think that they can obtain it, they don’t dedicate the time. I mean, it took me six weeks to carry those skills for the rest of my life. Yet what I find is most people say, oh, I wanna do it. But you know, I don’t have. But I then spend six hours on Netflix, binging, something that is not going to change their life.

Dan: Yes, yes. Wow. What a, what an incredible journey you’ve been on and. I just so, so much, so much in there to, to unpack. I think I’m, I’m just so floored by or one, it seems like you have a natural gift for numbers or at least, you know, the fact that the very fact that you’re tracking, like that’s, you’re tracking that it took you 93 doors.

Was that, was that part of their system. Like they’re like you gotta keep track. You gotta report or is that just, you were just like, I just gotta keep track of how long it takes me to, to make a sale. Tell me about.


Matthew: Well, so for me, I, I, I think one of my natural competencies was reflection. I. think A lot of introverts reflect. And I, I think what I noticed is, and I’m pretty sure that if I had have asked if I, my, my, my team managers, I mean, by the way, my first day was out, you know, with, with someone was my manager saying, this is not a real job and you won’t make any money outta this.

So I, I didn’t get a lot of support from leadership, but I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have told me to write down how many rejections, because. If I had done that, then I would’ve been writing down how painful it was. And, you know, I mean, literally only me and one other person came back outta my training group of 20 for the second day.

Right. That person didn’t last the week, I was the only one that stayed. So this sausage factory of just producing people that are desperate to, they may get one sale in that week and then paying them very little. And that’s how they made their money. So I didn’t get a lot of support, but what I, I realized is once I got to about the fourth or door or fifth door, that yes, the rejection was painful, but I wasn’t gonna learn anything unless I reflected on what had happened.

And at the fifth door, I was starting to forget what had happened in the first, because every rejection was painful and they all started to blend together. So I started to write down what it was. That caused them to push back. At what point they pushed me back. And then what was going on in my head at the time.

And then what words I was saying at the time, and what I realized is I was saying something different on every door because I was hoping to transform. And I, you can’t learn that way. Right? You can’t say something different every single door and then expect the result to be different On door 27, because it might have just been luck.

It may have just worked for that person. So I think that the pure act of reflection and I, I, I think that this is tough for introverts when you’re thinking about things like networking or sales, because let’s face it, rejection feels uncomfortable to us. And we think we have to behave like extroverts, which is also firstly, not true, but secondly, much more painful cuz we go home and criticize ourselves because we were behaving Almost incongruently with who we are as people. So for me, I think that by writing it down and realizing that the only way I could improve was by saying the exact same thing every time, even if it wasn’t the best, it could be gave me the opportunity to make it better over time. Made me feel in control.

And I think even more than that, it stopped making it about me because rejection became about the words I’d written on the page, as opposed to me and my personality, I was running a process, which was liberating. It stopped feeling like it was part of me. And, you know, you know, even in all my books, in, from sales to, to, to my book, in my new book on networking well I think that’s the biggest thing that people realize.

And, you know, I mean, you don’t need to buy my books to realize that right. As Soon as you realize that it’s not about you. It’s about the words that you’re saying in the process, it becomes. External. And you can almost play scientist, which introverts, very analytical, very reflective. You can say, well, let’s tinker with this thing today.

Or let’s tinker with this thing today that comes down to managing teams. It comes down to, you know, being that visionary leader, it comes down to podcast interviewing by the way I follow a Similar regimented process that, I mean, of course I, I have no control over the questions that you’re asking, but I do have control over the way I answer them and gravitating them back to my stories and making them relevant because introverts are amazing at empathy to the ideal audience that I believe that I’m speaking to.

Dan: I love that. That is, that is so great. Now tell me just to, I just wanna kind of clarify a few, a few bits of your process. What, what were you selling at that time? At that first, in that first role?

Matthew: Yeah, I was selling telecommunication. So I was that guy that was walking into businesses when they had customers in their shop and saying, Hey, you wanna save like 20% on your telephone bill? You know I

Dan: Yeah.

Matthew: driven 


Dan: got better things to do right now.

Matthew: exactly. That was the job I was doing.

Dan: I love it. And then as you, you, you worked your way up and then you said you, you know, you’ve had multiple million dollar success rates. Are those all in the same, in that same, um, company or, or were there other companies that you joined or started along the way?

Tell me, just kind of fill out some of those details for me.

Matthew: Absolutely. So my first business straight outta the gate was in telecommunications. I mean, I was, I mean, I literally in a year and I’d like to say I got overconfident, but what I noticed is every time I got promoted, I got a pay cut because I’d get a little less, um, I’d get a little, a little bit more salary, but then I’d get a lot more, lot less commission and it 

would, you know, I’d then 


Dan: selling. Yeah.

Matthew: Exactly. But I get commission on everybody else’s sales, which was fine if you’re not getting promoted as quickly as I was. But every time I found, like I, I, I got my team to a point where I was earning close to the same income. I get promoted. And now my commissions were based on a different team in a different state.

And so I, so I, I, I literally said to my manager, don’t bring me back to a, um, you know, I was in Adelaide, which is a state in Australia and, you know, I was there for four months. And I remember when I started, I had two people that worked for me. One person, I’m pretty sure. homeless, but came in to use our facilities and stuff in the morning and, and, and didn’t ever make a sale.

So I got rid of that person pretty quick. And the other person was in his, you know, late sixties and was going through cancer treatment at the time. And he was trying to get sales just to cover his treatment costs. But that was my entire team. I was a 19 year old kid outta, outta home. And that was my first, you know, outta state job.

And I managed to turn that into a state that actually outperformed head office to put that in perspective, that is like, um, I don’t know, some small city in Ohio, out selling New York city. And, and it was an amazing transformation. According to, to what they’d done. They’d never had like some small team from nowhere outsource, like Melbourne.

Melbourne’s huge. And then. I got promoted and they, they, I, I then lost all the commissions. I was supposed to get off that. And when I came back, I said, I’ll come back, but you have to promise me, you’ll look after me for salary. And when I came back, I mean, they offered me a $45,000 salary, which I was earning as a commission only rep over $3,000 a week as a commission rep before all the promotions.

And I said, look, I finally got myself back to that income. Give me, you know, don’t, don’t rip me off. And when I came back, they said, Matt, you’re you’re at that time an 18 year old kid, there’s no job you’re gonna get, I think I was 19, actually, there’s no job. You’re gonna get, that’s gonna pay you that much.

And they were right. But that just meant starting my own business was my only option. So I started my own business and, you know, within the space of a year, it turned over more than a million dollars. And you know, by year three we turned over just over three and a half million dollars a year. But you know, I have to tell you that by year.

three Like talking about call rates was like nails on a chalkboard for me. And, you know, we were talking about this just before the interview. People think that what they want is a rapid growth business. They don’t, what they want is a rapid growth business with customers. They love in a business. They make great money out of where they get to help people they care about, because I can promise you, I can create rapid growth outta anything, but there is nothing worse than a rapid growth business with customers.

You can’t stand in a business, you do not like, and that was what I had created for myself. So yes, I transitioned at, at over time. And it’s funny when, when you are looking to find yourself. And this is when we talked about the, the other gap year I had in 2013, I decided I was gonna start a new type of business.

And I did a year of soul searching and I literally traveled the world for an entire year. It was partly a party year for me because I’d worked long hours for a long period of time. And partly because I wanted to decide, I wanted to start in a new country. And just because, and it’s funny now I know what I know about online marketing I would probably not have done this, but back then I was a person that used to walk into people’s businesses to make sales. And I went well, Australia’s only 20 million people. Texas is 20 million people, right? So I get sold to all of the United States or all of Brazil or all of Europe. So I went, well, where am I going to set up?

And during that year of soul searching, I realized that if you are not doing something that sets you on fire, then you are either not going to muster the fire in your belly to go out and do it, which I didn’t have that problem. Don’t get me wrong. I was able to muster the fire in my belly and go out and charge, but there’s actually nothing worse than getting to the finish line and go, oh my gosh, I hate this.

And then buying all these really amazing toys to try and fill this depth in your soul. So for a year I literally searched for what it was I wanted to do. And what I realized is, and my last business was an education company and we had three and a half thousand students, all tradespeople. And I loved having contact with people and making them see that they could run their businesses more effectively and make more profit.

But what I. realize Is that. Everytime My business grew, I had less contact with people and more of the organization wide. What I realized is what I really wanted to do was just coach a few people a month, show them how to obtain rapid growth and then fire them as clients. Cuz once I’ve done the part where I help ’em get the message, the niche and the sales system, they don’t need someone of my caliber anymore.

And that’s my. Favorite toy in the world to play with. And then once I, I would then send them on their way. And then we built an online program. We wrote the books that sold, you know, I think 75,000 copies and then 16 languages now. And that’s really allowed me to do what I love. I mean, I, I, I hope that people can tell through this, that the level of passion and energy that you are getting right now is because I love what I do now.

Don’t get me wrong. I. could Still do this interview and still give it as much energy. But the difference is an introvert. At the end of this, I’m still gonna be tired, but planning and processing system means I’m going to be less tired and passion means that I’m going to be even less tired when you add those two things together.

I cannot only outperform an extrovert that does an interview without a plan process. I don’t need to have as much rehabilitation afterwards. Where I just sit in front of it No, don’t get me wrong. I do have a plan to spend 15 minutes watching a TV show after this. That’s my replenishment time, but I don’t need half a day.

I need 15 minutes because then I’m actually itching to go and do something else. Cause I love what I do. Most people don’t have that, which is why most people can’t compete with those that do.

Dan: I love it. I love it for those. I love that you, you, uh, use a phrase mustering, the mustering, that fire in your belly, which I think is a really, that’s a really, that’s a great visual. I love it. Um, sounds like a it feels like a dragon, right? Like getting the, the fires. You could breathe that fire out. Uh, But I’m curious, like, you know, for folks, a lot of people listening that are hit and play on this, they wanna make some change in their life.

They wanna maybe find themselves might be a word that they’re using. They might be thinking about career change. They might just be thinking like, I just don’t like, you know, something in my life’s not working now. It might be my work. It might be me. I don’t know. Um, maybe they don’t have the ability to take a gap year right now, but like, I, I think the, the question I wanna ask is like about mustering the fire in belly.

Is it mustering or is it finding something. that Can feed that fire, or how do you think about that?

Matthew: So I have to tell you, it took me a year to figure it out, because what happens is people live in the world of shiny objects. And what I learned in that year is you can actually find the answer in 10 minutes or maybe a, a good weekend, but the problem is, and especially when I mean, I’d done well in my home country of Australia, which means that every time I thought, what is it I wanted to do.

Somebody always had an idea for what I should do. And they always wanted to talk to me about it, which means I couldn’t go anywhere without getting a suggestion of what my next business should be. And following the money. Well, the truth is you can make better money doing what you love. It doesn’t seem like it originally because everyone’s got these opportunities that you should find.

And somebody that’s great at sales, don’t get me wrong. You can get on anything. That’s a campaign right now and make more money than most people could make in a lifetime in a couple of years, if you’re great at sales than you can build a sales team skillsets I had, which means I could have made a fortune forever, just constantly selling my soul to the highest bidder But you get over that. Right. And, and don’t get me wrong. You could say, well, once you’ve got enough money, you don’t need to, but there’s never such a thing when you’re really unhappy selling things that you don’t like. There’s always a requirement for more money. But also what I discovered, if you just spend a little bit of time thinking, so.

Don’t get me wrong that year was, was really helpful, but it helped me realize that it’s actually a lot simpler to discover what you want. Just people don’t really ask. They go, what is it I wanna do with my life? I wonder what social media says, or I wonder what do I wanna do with my life? Let’s listen to a few more podcast interviews.

They’re constantly consuming and they’re constantly following shiny objects. And they’re constantly distracted by family, by friends, by the notifications on their. Truthfully if most people did one thing that nobody I bet listening has been able to do in their entire lifetime, their adult lifetime takes a two day weekend where they don’t talk to anybody at all.

They rent a cabin or they say to their family, you guys go on holidays, I’m staying put, and I’m switching all the TVs off and I’m leaving my phone into a drawer. Right? Here’s I’m gonna go and buy a $50 prepaid. Call me on that number if there’s an emergency, but I’m taking a weekend. And literally spend time with themselves and their thoughts.

And what I always suggest to people is the first thing you should do is write out all your fears because the fears are usually what dictates the decisions. And, you know, there’s a good quote by Jim Carrey You know, Jim Carrey for those that don’t know Jim Carrey for. Famous comedian and his FA he said, you know, um, he did this quote at a, at a college address and he said, you know, there was a, a lot of PE, um, you know, when sorry, he said, my father was a really funny man.

He could have been a famous comedian, but he made the decision to make the safe choice. He became an accountant. Instead, he made the practical decision, by the way, introvert’s a very practical and logical thinkers. Right. So he said that, you know, I learned a great deal from my. father But here’s the backstory.

His father actually got laid off in the later years and they couldn’t afford to survive. Like, you know, Jim Carey was a janitor of his own high school just to help cover the bills. If you can imagine how horrific that’ve been for a teenager. He said, I learned a great deal from my father, but you, the most important lesson was you can fail at what you don’t want.

So why not take a chance at what you love? Well, the answer is two reasons. One is most people don’t even spend time thinking about what they love. They keep following the media that tells them what they should love. And the second is that most people are too scared to actually take action because they can’t see a path to making money.

They say, oh, if they do discover their passion, they’re like, oh, I should try and do this. But practically, I can’t make money in a split second. They don’t give themselves time to even. think So, what you need to firstly do is discover what you’re passionate about. And there’s actually a book, a terrible title, title, name it’s called the way of the superior man.

And the first chapter I’m not a big fan of the whole book. The first chapter’s really good. It says spend a period of time just with your thoughts. The first thing I would suggest you do is write out all the fears you’ve got. Because you need to realize that those are the things that are, that are actually dictating what you do.

But the second thing, and I actually have, I’ve got two podcasts, one for the introverts listening. I’ve got a podcast called the introverts edge. I think you’ll love it, but I’ve got another podcast called the better business coach and episode. Seventeen’s called forget about goals. Why is the key to success?

And here’s the milestone that I learned everybody Especially high achievers are really good at setting goals, but when they set them, they, you, you high achievers, especially they’ll write their goals in like two seconds. But when I get to the next part of the exercise and I ask them why they want them, they struggle to answer the questions.

And the, the reason they struggle is because they’ve inherited that goal from their mother, their father, I don’t know, drunk roommate they had in college. They hear these things like that’s what I want and they spend their life charging. after it Which is what I did originally. Right? That’s I got to success and went yuck.

So the thing that you need to do is firstly, limit the number of goals, because what happens is people set hundreds of audacious goals. Now everyone says set audacious goals. All you’re doing is lying to yourself. You need to focus. But the other thing is you need to limit your exposure to those goals.

Cuz most people haven’t hit a goal for as long as they can. remember So the first thing I do is say set three business or career goals, set three personal goals, one selfish to yourself because it blows me away. How many times people don’t even all their goals are about serving their family and other people, but nothing for them.

And truthfully, that will be one of the biggest things that drive you. Funnily enough. Sometimes when I suggest that might have been the first time it even occurred to them to do it. But once you get your three business goals, I mean, you can use smart criteria, something specific, measurable that. So you time based.

But It’s the Why’s that are important because the whys need to embody why you actually care. Right? So many people go, I, you know, I need this because I wanna buy this or I need this because I need, there’s such practical answers. If you can’t connect it with your passion and your mission and your desire to serve and feel part of something, they’re not gonna push you.

So I suggest that you set three business, three career ish goals and three personal goals. Then make cuz that way you can make sure they’re all congruent, they’re all pushing you in the right direction. And then you make them short term goals. So yes. Okay. If you’ve got a business, you might wanna make a million dollars and I’m not saying you can’t, I’m saying the way you might get there will change as you make more money.

And your belief that it’s possible will change. You know, I worked with a client that I took from literally making no money at all to 300,000. The following, like literally four months later, he, he went. 12,000 by October to 120,000, by the end of the year, 300,000, the following year. And, but his goal was I’m gonna make a million dollars by the end of the year.

I’m like, dude, it’s October, you’ve made 12,000. You don’t believe that that’s possible. And, and secondly, how would you do it? And he’s like, I’m gonna have 10 ghost writers working for me. They’re all gonna do 10 books at $20,000. Each I’m gonna make 10,000. They’re gonna make 10,000. That’s the business.

model Great, but you haven’t even sold one for $20,000 yet. You just told me you think that people can’t afford it. By the way, he charges 130,000 for a ghost written book now. And he is booked out for like over a year, but here’s what I will say that made him feel good. Because the reason why he was so desperate right now is he was going to hit a million dollar goal.

No, he wasn’t. He was lying to himself. That’s gambling. Right? I’ve got a blog post on my website. If you go to Matthew, it’s called, do you have a small business or a gambling addiction? He had a gambling addiction. He was selling himself a future journey. What I said to him, as I said, all right, but at the moment you are, you are in scarcity mode.

What would that number look like to not be in scarcity? I call this an independence. goal And he said, well, all I need is 56,000. I said, great. Let’s focus on that. We hit that in less than six weeks. So as soon as he hit that, I said, do you still wanna have 10 people working for you? He said, oh gosh, no, that would be the last thing I want.

I’m an introvert. The last thing I wanna do is have 10 people constantly reporting I’m constantly responsible for. So I then said, well, okay, what’s your next goal? 120, right. Was his next goal. And I said, so what do you want? Now? He said, I wanna have a retail store that sells books where we’ve got community centers, um, where people can come and learn about books.

And I wanna be able to write my own books. Funnily enough when you hit 120, I said, do you still want that? At this point, he’s charging $55,000 for a ghost written book and he’s ma he’s now making $120,000. He said, oh gosh, no, I get to work with authors in Switzerland. I get to work with authors in London.

That would be a boat anchor, tying me to a city. I, I don’t want that my family loves to travel. So here’s the thing that happens. Firstly, we save these goals, which gets in the way of our belief that can happens. But also as we grow as individuals and we believe in ourselves, we also are willing to trade off less of.

We want to get, sorry, trade off less of our personal time and less of what we consider is important for more money, cuz we’re outta that scarcity mode. I will also tell you that what you believe is possible changes. So the business model that he at 120 and we created together at that point was vastly different to the, the business originally, but that’s because he learned a lot and he got to what he had more case studies and he had more people reaching out to him because he created a message that didn’t.

Commoditizing. He niche down. He had great stories. He had a great sales system and his business was working. So the focal point is set shorter goals. What I call self-efficacy goals, set less of them and know your wise and your passion behind. If you have that and you do the job well, then you’ll find that you can charge at that goal with energy and inspiration.

It stops being so much about you cuz it’s passion mission, which also means if you’re trying to sell your products and services, you don’t go into networking rooms feeling like. You’re a transactional person, people, and you know, in my new book, the introverts edge to networking, I talk about talking about your passion and mission for service, not when somebody says, what is it you do as opposed to, oh, you know, I’m this functional skill I’ve worked with these groups of people and my ideal customers, this, which sounds like, Hey, I’d love to have you as a client.

Cause I’m dying to buy a brand new motorcar. And I think you can help with that. Right? So you’ve got, if as soon as you start to focus on passion and. mission You feel much more authentic as well. So for me, that is the shift point. When you, when you do that, and you can do that in a weekend, you can come to terms with your fears so that you don’t listen to any of those.

You put them on hold for just a period of time. Do those goals set what’s important to you make them short and set yourself a three to six month goals, right? So that you knock those out of the park, your belief grows, you see yourself moving forward. And for the first time in your life, you’ll have momentum.

Everything will seem.

Dan: I love that. It’s a great, a really great framework. I’m curious, just to illustrate this a little bit for you, what are your current goals? What are some of the things you’re.


Matthew: Yeah, absolutely. So for, and it is quite funny. So when I first moved to the United States, remember I was a guy that used to sell through door to door, telecommunications, retail stores. That’s all I knew when I first moved to the United States. My goal was to figure this online thing out because I kind of felt like. That was, it was a bunch of people taking photos of their donut for something to say on Instagram. It’s what I thought. Right. And I never wanted to do that. And funnily enough, I figured it out. And what I realized is most people can’t clearly articulate the value of what you do. And if you can’t articulate the value of what you do, when you’re face to face with somebody in a networking room where they’re politely listening for two to three minutes, you have no chance online.

When you get a fraction of a second. So, what I realized is I didn’t have to work half as hard. I didn’t have to be the loudest because I could be the clearest. And then I could leverage a bunch of automation to make sure that I had clients from all over the world. Chase me, amazing skill set to have, and it’s actually not hard to create, but then.

That was me really figuring online out, but what I realized and now to the, to the point, we’re getting so many people read my books. They wanna work with new one on one. They wanna buy my online programs. And for me, there’s just this limit of how many people I can help, how many people I can work with. So my objective this year is actually, we’ve got a new platform called introvert.

You and it’s actually now me showcasing other introverted talents. So we’re showcasing other ex experts in the introverted space. And my favorite. Other people that are industry Titans that just so happen to be introverted, right. I call them the secret introverted Titans. So we, we have this platform now that’s creating where we’re creating all these micro courses, five to 10 minute videos that are sorry, five to 10 videos that are all five to 10 minutes long, where an introvert can learn one specific thing today and apply it tomorrow and know that it’s an introvert telling, cause I’m not the only person that’s, that is an expert on networking.

I mean, Ivan Meisen and the founder of BNI is also. An introvert and he’s written books on networking. I just wrote the word introvert on the cover. So they know that it’s for them, cuz we’re so used to seeing a book and going, I can’t do that because that person’s an extrovert and I’m an introvert. So for me, I wanted to create a platform that was all about exposing.

Other introverts that are successful and creating a community, you know, there’s community function to it, but also all these learnings and trainings every month, we’re dropping new stuff in to help other introverts realize how the skill sets they need to be successful. And more importantly, to make sure they’re constantly being presented with it.

So we don’t listen to another extrovert that tells us how hard it is for us. We know we actually have an edge.

Dan: I love it. It’s fantastic. Um, I know we’re kind of coming up on time here, so I just want to, just, as we move towards, toward wrapping up for people, wanna follow along with your work and connect with you. Is there anything in particular you’d like to invite people to?

Matthew: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, and thank you for asking, so obviously I can definitely check out introvert you, uh, if they Google my. name I mean, a bunch of stuff comes up. Um, my publisher hates me when I say this, you don’t need to buy my books. You know, I’m really committed. Uh, well, it’s just for me, I’m as I said in congruency with my mission, I mean, that’s why I founded national introverts week as well, because I wanna change the dialogue.

And for me, you can read the first chapter in my networking book and that’ll change the dialogue for you, cuz you’ll realize that the way everybody else is doing networking, that you think you have to copy, but can’t stand is. actually Horrible way to network. And if you follow a more methodical process, you’ll develop much better relationships for the last, the test of time.

And you’ll also realize that the most unimportant people in the networking room are people that wanna work with you. You keep outta the networking room is what I call momentum partnerships in champion relationships. They can bring your work to a different level and can introduce you a whole different demographic of client base.

So in the introverts, if you go to the introverts edge to, you’ll be able to download. The first chapter of that book. And by the way, we’re actually piloting something at the moment. I’ve never, I’ve actually not said this out loud yet, but by the time this comes out, 

um, this, uh, this will be available.

If you do wanna buy a copy of the book, we’re actually ju we, we’ve just, pre-ordered a thousand copies of this book and we’re actually gonna give them away for free people can just pay the shipping. So if you go to networking book for, you can. By the book I, I covered the complete cost of the book.

You’ve just gotta pay the shipping and handling, but start with the free chapter, go to the introverts edge to networking and do that. Um, again, the sales book, if you wanna check that out, go to the The first chapter will sh help you realize why introverts make the best salespeople.

And on top of that, it will then give you a seven step process. And I, I joke about this, but it, so many people have been able to do this and they’ve sent me messages saying, you know, I didn’t buy your book. But it’s because the first chapter works so well. Um, and it was literally that they grabbed the seven steps.

I know this sounds ridiculous, but they grab the seven steps. They look at what they currently say and they try and fit it into those seven steps. And they quickly realize that there’s some things out of order. And there’s some things that don’t fit. Well, the things that don’t fit you shouldn’t be saying to a customer.

So throw that out. Then you’ll realize there’s some gaping holes and that’s usually around telling great stories and asking the right questions, not just questions, the right questions. So if you reorder your sales process, you say you then fill in those gaps. You’ll easily double your sales in the next 60 days.

So again, I would recommend you check out the and you can download the first chapter there. And if you’re in business, like just apply what you learn in that free chapter. And you’ll, you’ll have an amazing success in your business.

Dan: Love it. This has been so fun. Thank you so much for coming on Matthew. It’s really great to connect with you,

Matthew: This is my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

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