In this build-in-public style episode, Dan and Raj explore the upcoming changes to the show, Dan’s struggles to embrace his limits, and what might be next for the Meaning Movement.
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Dan: Raj, welcome once again to The Meaning Vovement. How are you doing?
Raj: I’m glad to be here. It’s nice to be back.
Dan: The question I wanna start with is, uh, why, why are we here, Raj, here today? Let’s, let’s start with that.
Raj: I have often joked that there’s possibly no one in more need of the meaning movement. You, Dan, the leader of the meaning movement. And, uh, that I, I think that’s kind of what led us here today. Um, you have some things you wanna talk about, about what you’re thinking about, where, where things are going, and uh, also some needs that you have, uh, and how that affects kind of the rest of the meaning.
Movement community.
Dan: Yes, yes. No, I literally told my wife, uh, was a few weeks ago. I was like, I just need to talk to me. I just need a, I just need a Dan to talk to. Um, and so I think you are exactly right. I, I think, uh, I, I mean, there’s a reason why I started this thing. There’s a reason why I do this thing, and it’s, um, because it’s, these are conversations I care about.
These are struggles that I, I have had myself and continue, continue to have, and. . Um, yeah. Very relevant.
Raj: Yeah. So let’s, let’s kind of start there. Um, You and I decided to have this conversation, I think almost a month ago and maybe a little more. And, um, it has taken us this long to put together because, uh, of a couple things. The first is just life and craziness, and then the, the other thing is is kind of a hard conversation to.
And, uh, for everybody to understand why this is a difficult conversation to have. I think we sort of need to talk about what it is that we’re, uh, talking about. And so you came to a decision recently, um, about just your work and how that needs to be shaped and, and so, uh, tell us about that decision if you would.
Dan: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So over the last six months, I’ve been in a little bit of a, of a transition and some of that has trickled out onto the, the podcast, I mean, our conversations, thinking about the Meaning movement, thinking about where the meaning movement fits into my life. I talk about my work as having a, a trifecta of work, one being the meaning movement, one being video snap, and then more recently, my one being my work with 9 23 as a product.
Building software and um, that’s a lot. It’s a lot of things at their best. Uh, I think that they, they play together well and there’s some good synergy between them. Um, at their worst, they pull me in different directions and, um, end up fighting with each other. Um, I, I think they’re, they’re kinda like kids, right?
Um, they’re either their best friends or, or, or worst enemies. And, um, a lot of the reason. Um, you know, that I’m doing all these things is, is one, one part. You know, I like doing things. I like doing multiple things. And we’ve talked about entrepreneurial, ADHD a little bit. Um, that’s a constant battle in my life.
So there, there’s, there’s that piece, and then there’s also the piece of just finances and, uh, financial goals and meeting, meeting needs and taking. A family, my family, where we need to go. And, uh, the meaning movement has always been a contributor, but a very small contributor to the family economy, if you will.
Um, video Snap is still early and I’m not paying myself at all from, from that project. And so to move into my work with 9 23 is very much a financial decision, but also, I mean, it’s. Is fun. But at the same time, it’s not like my, my, uh, my mission in life to build software for other people. I want to build my own things.
Um, so it’s been a very hard decision to realize, I think I am spread too thin. I think I am, um, biting off more than I can chew, and I think there’s something that needs to go. And so then with that question then started looking at each of the pieces of the puzzle. And the podcast is kind of bubbled up to the surface as it’s something I care a lot about.
I’ve invested a lot of time and effort and resources and money into, and yet when I look at it from a strategic standpoint and a financial standpoint, um, I. Is not contributing, um, to the dollars and cents of, of the family economy. Um, even if it is a fun and passion filled and, um, there’s a lot of other good things that it does for me.
But at a time in my life when I feel like I need to optimize for income, it’s um, it’s just not there. Um, which is, um, been a hard, it’s been a bitter, bitter pill. Pill to swallow.
Raj: Um, so just to clarify, are you, uh, are you shutting down the meaning movement or do we all need to find a new place to have our feelings or, um, like what,
Dan: find a new place to go to cry? Uh, no. And that’s, I mean, that’s one of the directions that I went is like, what, what if, what if we did shut down the meaning movement? Um, but the, but there’s other things that are happening outside of the podcast that are really healthy. I’m about to launch, um, the first iteration. Of the business accelerator that I’ve been building in the matter of matter of weeks, have five people that are gonna be on that journey along with me.
Um, maybe one or two more might still join. And, um, and so there’s, there is a part of the meaning that feels very alive and um, and exciting. Um, it’s just not the part that necessarily people. See, um, unless you’re, unless you’re following me on LinkedIn, that’s where that content has been trickled out. I’ve not been doing a good job of putting it in the newsletter.
I’ve been neglecting the newsletter, uh, which again points to the fact that I just, I’m, I’m spread thin. Things are, things are falling through the cracks. And, um, and so to circle all the way back to your question, I entertained the idea of should the meaning movement shut down? Is this, is this the, the end of something and, and would that be the best choice?
And I just don’t, I’m not, um, the answer is, At least not yet. Um, and very much like I think that there’s a life here, um, a mission here that needs, needs to be explored, but needs to be explored with fresh eyes and fresh energy that I don’t have to give it. And you’ve been a big part of that and I think, um, you’ve really invited me to think about like, what if the meaning movement is more than just Dan’s work?
What if it is more than just you carrying, you know, carrying the flag? Um, and that’s been a really exciting and. Um, direction to explore. But I feel like I, I can’t, um, keep up the pace of producing the podcast and doing all the other things in my life, and also create the space to see what, um, is next and what should emerge from this project.
And so with all that in mind, um, the decision is to hit the pause button for a period of time, which it may be, you know, um, I would say it’s, I expect it to be at least. Maybe longer, um, but I don’t know how long. Um, and when it comes back, I assume it will come back. I’d like it to come back. Um, but at that point that it’ll have some fresh energy, maybe a new format, um, hopefully a new website to go with it.
Some, some more energy around it. Um, and a lot of other, you know, good components that instead of it being something that’s I’m going through the motions to do, to keep the thing going, um, I think it’ll feel really exit. and good.
Raj: Yeah. So to kind of sum all that up, my understanding is, uh, the meaning movement continues. It, it lives to fight another day. Uh, there’s the accelerator that’s starting soon. In fact, if this is the first time you’ve heard about the accelerator, Then, uh, there’s still time to sign up. Uh, not very much, but, uh, there are a couple spots open for that.
Still. I will be in it because, um, like everyone else here who’s having a midlife crisis, uh, no, I’m every, you know, like everybody else in the, in the community who. Wants more direction, wants more, um, you know, uh, uh, just alignment in their life between what they value and what their next steps are. Um, I’ve got spaces I wanna move in there, and, uh, right now it’s kind of doing it out of a place of health for me.
I’ve, I’ve had the last two years to kind of recover from burnout, and I’m starting to ask those questions of what’s next. And so that’s why I joined, that’s why I’m gonna be in the accelerator. . Um, I don’t know if that scares people away from joining or if that attracts people to hang out with the two of
us.
Um,
Dan: whether or not you’re gonna be there.
Raj: sorry. Sorry if a couple people just dropped out because of that, but
Dan: Well, just to add, I think to, to what you’re saying, you know, everyone’s coming into the accelerator with a, uh, with a question, something that’s something that they’re looking to find resolution for. That’s, uh, like you said, alignment. I think it’s a really good word. Alignment of the business. I’m, I’m drawing, I’m drawing circles in the air.
Their business world is one circle. Their personal world is the other circle. Focus on the overlap of those personal goals and where they want to go and their business goals and what they’re building, where that, where that’s taking them to make sure that we’re building businesses, um, that, that take us, take us to the right places and in a way that we enjoy, um, along the journey.
Um, so Exci, so excited to have you and the crew doing this together.
Raj: Yeah. So the meaning me, meaning movement continues. The accelerators launching here. And there will likely be more of those, uh, even while, uh, the, so really kind of the, just the biggest news is the podcast is gonna take a break. Dan says, for a month, my recommendation is actually gonna be like three to six months that we, we pause on this, um, because it, it needs some fine tuning.
And I, I’d love to, if you’re open to it, kind of, uh, pull back the curtain on how that decision was.
Dan: yeah.
Raj: the podcast specifically, um, you know, because with the meaning movement with the accelerator, uh, which is kind of a reformatting of the calling course, but you know, with some new material as well.
Um, that’s all good. Like everybody, everybody’s been through it. Everything that I’ve been exposed to in it, it’s like, yes, I need this. And so that, that part is good. That part is good. The podcast itself has. A little confused, and I think we realized this, uh, about a month ago when we kind of had this conversation about sort of what the next season of the podcast should be.
And you expressed this need, uh, for the podcast to, um, have, have guests on it that would. Sort of serve the other areas of your life, um, you know, specifically the software development area of your life, because that’s a good way to make connections and get business. And, um, you know, Becca and I, uh, being on that call, we kind of challenged it a little bit and, and said, okay, but like, but does the Meaning Movement community need those voices if they’re talking about things that are relevant to the Meaning movement community?
Sure, absolutely. But if they are, um, you know, but if, if they wanna talk about software or whatever, that’s not necessarily as, you know, what the rest of us are here for. So it kind of created this moment of crisis for you, um, or at least brand crisis, identity crisis around the meaning movement. Um, can you kind of talk about how.
Experience that how you, uh, and, and by the way, if you wanna cut all of this, cuz I just aired our dirty laundry on
Dan: yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah. No, I’m, I’m, I’m willing, I’m willing to go, I’m willing to entertain it, see, see where this direction takes us. But,
Raj: Yeah.
Dan: I mean, I think it’s kind of case in point of like Dan’s life, like, uh, Trying to do all the things in all the places all the time when they don’t fit, it feels like is some of, some of the challenge that got got me there feeling like, um, I’m doing all these things and um, therefore the podcast can do all these things with me.
And I think it took some good insight from, from you and from Becca about. You know, maybe that’s not the best thing for the listener. And maybe one of the challenges to growth is, um, is that we haven’t had a cohesive enough listening experience, um, that doesn’t, um, speak directly enough to the listener and the listener’s needs.
Um, and that. You might be spreading that I might be spreading the, the listener thin in the same ways that I’m spread thin, um, between all these different areas. And so I feel like it’s actually a great lens to look at. Um, maybe the , the, the inner workings of my, my desires and um, competing desires at times with how I spend my time.
Raj: And, uh, you know, I think one thing just to honor here is you are not the only one who does this by far. You are not the only one who does this. Most of my job as a brand strategist. is to help people narrow down. It’s not that they aren’t, uh, doing enough. A lot of times it’s, they’re doing too much. Uh, and, uh, any business website that you’ve ever, uh, gone to and been confused by?
I mean, this happens all the time. If you’re not, and whoever’s listening, if you’re not getting enough business, there’s a decent chance it’s. The people that you are trying to talk to, that you think you’re talking to, clearly don’t understand the problem that you solve and aren’t compelled that this is the one place to get a solution to that problem.
And I think, you know, for me, my attraction to the Meaning movement originally was, uh, some of it honestly was even just in the name, you know, . It was this sort of revolution against. What I had experienced in the work, in the workforce to that point, which was, um, you know, even in nonprofits where there’s supposed to be a little more touchy feely, I felt pretty expendable.
And I felt like though I was trying to do the things that provided my life with meaning, I was having trouble getting off the ground there I was, I was, felt like I was always sort of subject to the whims of other people. And it was frustrating. And so having you kind of put up that flag and say, no, like this is, we’re gonna build a place where we’re gonna fight for the people who, uh, want not a work-life balance, but work-life integration and, and, and want to be their whole selves every day at home and at work.
Um, that, I mean, just that clarion call from the beginning, almost 10 years ago.
Dan: Yes.
Raj: I was on board. I think that at times we have drifted from that. Um, and, and, and again, this is a super common business problem. I’ve got a lot of, you know, uh, irons in the fire, got a lot of things to, you know, to, to try to balance, including my own family’s needs.
And it’s easy to try to sort of cram one thing into another, or, uh, even just have mission creep and not.
Dan: Yep.
Raj: I think that this pause is a good moment for us to kind of get back to just raising that flag and saying like, Hey, um, you know, we’re gonna be that place. And I think in a really beautiful way, you taking the pause from the podcast to do that for your family is the most meaning movement thing you can do.
Dan: I love that. Yeah. I mean, it is, it is true it and it is the. It’s the advice that I would give someone else. Um, it’s just, I also want to keep. Keep the platform, the platform, the, the effort, the, uh, communication channels open to, to have, to be able to give that advice to, to other people. And I think that’s what the struggle has been.
And I think some of it’s, you know, sunk cost, you know, sunk cost fallacy of like, you know, I’ve been building it for so long and if I let go, then like, what’s gonna happen? And, and then there’s the question. Is it actually valuable? Does it actually produce, you know, is it valuable beyond the dollars and cents, which I think it is, but like right now, the truth is like I just have to optimize for, for the dollars and and cents.
And so I don’t know. It feels, it feels good to hear you say. That is the most meaning movement thing that you could be doing. I, uh, but which just the irony of it is so palpable. That’s like stopping the meaning, mo stopping a part, part of the meaning movement is the most true to the mission right now.
And that’s, um, yeah. It’s, it’s hard, hard to wrap your mind around and hard to, I don’t know. It’s been hard to wrap my heart around it a little bit.
Raj: yeah, I, I think in another episode we talked about, You know, the four Ps framework that you, uh, you know, that you’re developing and, you know, uh, one of those is profits. And, uh, and in your life right now, the primary need that you have for your family is more income. And, and it’s not found in the meaning movement.
Um, and, and you and I have had several conversations about. Maybe it’s better that, that we don’t worry about that part of the meaning movement at the moment. We don’t worry about how much money it can make to see if it can support Dan as family, but instead make money somewhere else and let this be a passion project until if ever it becomes clear, um, how, how it provides for you and the
Dan: Yes. And it, I mean, again, the irony is like, I was on a call with some clients and, um, doing some coaching around there, launching a business, and it’s this dream business and it’s a couple they, they’re launching together and, um, have all of the, all of their hopes and dreams and in this thing, and they want to go full-time with it.
And they have this moment of realization of like, yeah, maybe it’s a lot to ask of this business to carry our financial future and our hopes and dreams. Um, which I felt like such a. Moment for them to kind of take a step back and maybe think about like, what, what would a, a, a two-pronged approach to work be?
Um, and yet, you know, here I am struggling with the same thing, that it is a lot to, uh, it, it could detract and I think is where you and I have been Raj with it, is that. Maybe the meaning movement would be one better served if I was less reliant on income from it. Two might actually grow, uh, in all aspects faster, further, um, if I was less reliant on, on income from it.
Um, and, and I think with those two things in mind, it’s given me some space to think, okay, maybe this is the best thing, not even just for me, but even for the meaning movement to step back and say, okay, let’s see what grows in the some empty space.
Raj: Yeah, so talking about the process of coming to that decision, to accepting a hard reality about it. Um, and then, but, but then also talking about how the reboot, the reformat of it might come about. I think I’d be a little concerned if, if, if it was something that kind of happened in a vacuum, uh, and for one it would’ve taken a lot longer.
I can tell you that for sure. It, you know, we’d probably be sitting at the end of this year, um, with you not being able to sleep and scribbling something furiously in the middle of the night and going, oh my gosh, I got it. I need to, need to pause the podcast for a little while. But how you actually came to that decision was with me and be.
And, um, and, and the funny thing is again, this, this, you know, one of the other PS in the framework is people. And, um, and, and so, uh, can you kind of talk about that a little bit? Like how um, other people have played a role in you, you know, making some changes for a season.
Dan: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that, um, you and Becker were, were some of the, um, Strongest presence in, in that, uh, in that decision. But even, um, outside of, of the two of you, I, again, probably that same conversation with my wife and I was like, I need, I need me to talk to you. Um, I told her, I was like, I’m, I’m calling, I’m circling the troops, which is probably not the right analogy, would be like circling the wagons or something, but like, just like started like reaching out to a few folks and just saying, Hey, can I have a minute to help sort.
My, my brain, um, the people that I feel like have seen, seen me understand me and understand the work of that I’ve been, that I’ve been doing. Um, and you know, there’s a wide range of, of, you know, I can’t point at any one of those and saying like, this was, this was the one conversation that was like the best, you know, the most helpful or whatever, but to have people that I know I could call on that are in my corner.
and really could function as a board of directors or at least a, a minimum a sounding board. Um, was an incredible, um, helped my process. Some of it’s, I think I’m also very much a verbal processor. I don’t know what I’m thinking until I, till I say it, but then also just to have someone else. It’s just challenge, challenge the assumptions that I’m making to call me, you know, call me out when I’m, um, making false false assumptions and, and, um, invite me also to think about things from a different vantage point was really, really helpful.
And one of the first was, um, a friend who has a very successful, very, um, Large podcast by the, by the numbers. And he was like, well, how many downloads do you get? And I like told him, you know, are, are average. And he was like, well that answers your question right there. Which is like kind of a brutal, a brutal response.
Um, but to him, from his vantage point, it’s like, yeah, like the numbers aren’t there, so then you know what to do. For me, it’s a much, much more emotional, it takes longer, longer time to, to, you know, let that, all the implications of that settle. But, um, but all that’s to say, Having people in your process, um, is vital to, especially in moments like this, um, especially in, in understanding.
What you want and, and allowing, um, other people to kind of hold your hopes and dreams for you and, and to clarify alongside you like this is, this is maybe a, the, the right path towards, towards your, your hopes and dreams and is one of the reasons I’m most excited about the accelerator is to be building more community with other business owners for each other, for myself to be sounding boards, um, in these kinds of transitional.
Raj: Yeah. So, um, LinkedIn has played a role in, you know, finding people for the accelerator and uh, it actually led to one of the conversations that you and I had about where the podcast was going because you were challenging me to be writing more on LinkedIn. And, uh, you know, it’s funny because I’m a marketer by trade, uh, branding and messaging or what I.
Dan: Yeah.
Raj: And it felt to me like every time I sat down to write about something like that, I just wanted to write about things like, you know, I have some friends who are experiencing, um, you know, the loss of parents right now and, uh, tough medical diagnoses and, you know, it’s like everything that just kind of was oozing out of me that was just like right there, readily accessible to write about.
it didn’t feel like LinkedIn was the right place to write it. Um, and so then I started going through this, uh, you know, maybe I need to start a podcast. I’m an author. I, you know, maybe building a my own platform, all that will help get the book published. Um, and, and, uh, but I had this realization where I go, what if I do that, I’m more or less gonna be just creating content that competes with the meaning Movement , which was a little light bulb moment for me, and I.
So I, I called you and, uh, and I, uh, shared the list with you and you agreed that it sounded more like the meaning movement content, and so that’s another way that people have kind of entered into the conversation of maybe what the podcast becomes next. Do you wanna talk about that a little bit?
Dan: Yeah. Well, I think that, you know, in that conversation, you invited me to, You know, what if, what if, uh, what if there were episodes of the meeting movement that I wasn’t even present for, um, which was mind blowing to me because it’s like I’ve, I’ve carried this thing, um, mo mostly on my own for so for so long.
Um, but also I think a step towards reenvisioning. Like, what if this is bigger? Bigger than, than my, just my contribution. And I think that, I’ve thought about it from the other standpoint of like, one thing I always talk about with people around calling meaning purpose, that there’s no job. That can be the end all, be all for your contribution to the world.
But there can be, you know, because, because it’s too big. And, uh, a, um, one, one role, one, one, uh, project can be. Avenue, but it’s not the totality. Uh, and it felt like really what you’re inviting me to is the opposite is also true. That maybe the mission of the meaning movement is bigger than me, bigger than what I have to give.
Um, which is just a really interesting and exciting way to think about what I’m doing here. And I think it’s invited, it’s helped me just dream bigger that maybe more is.
Raj: Yeah. Yeah. And, and that’s, that’s exciting for me. Um, I remember the first time I was on the podcast, the, you know, it felt like such a huge deal to me. . It was the first, I think that was the first time I was ever on a podcast.
And the fact that you were willing to have me on and. Talk about the book. That was the first time I’d ever talked about the book publicly.
And um, you know, so that, that was a big moment for me. And, um, so it’s, there’s kind of a cool full circle thing where it’s like, wow. Being able to, to help you in that, uh, is, is a huge honor. Um, and I know, uh, Becca, who’s probably listening, is excited about, uh, you know, coming in as well and, and just adding to the chorus of voices that.
It’s like you raised that flag and then people followed. People came alongside and, and now they’re there to help you hold the flag and carry it when you’re not able to. Um, and that’s, to me, that’s really exciting. I think that means that the movement has been successful to this point, but also can be more successful with more strength in.
Dan: I feel, I feel that a lot. I mean, that hits me deep and I think it’s because. I know that part of my pathology, um, for better, for better and worse, is that I feel like I need to. Myself, not just it, but ev anything like that. The, the, the, the pain of the organization, um, needs to be, um, held by me or the, the challenge like that I’m willing to take on more, um, in order to, um, I don’t know, free others people up or just so that they don’t have to bear it.
I’m not sure it’s stuff I need to work out with a, with, with my therapist, but, But it’s something I’m aware of. And as you say that, I’m like, yeah, this is a familiar, familiar pattern in my life of like, I’m the leader or the, um, you know, instigator if you will. And therefore I have this bias that I need to be the one who’s carrying the weight.
Um, and it’s not true. And I appreciate that invitation to once again, see it differently.
Raj: You know, there’s the, the old saying that if you’re leading and no one is following, you’re just a guy out taking a walk. And, uh,
Dan: It’s true.
Raj: you know, I, I, I know exactly that tendency that you’re talking about. In fact, I texted you last night and was just telling you about all the things that were just kind of weighing on my mind.
Um, yesterday was kind of a heavy day for a number of reasons, and I woke up this morning, still kinda had that cloud, that funk. And, um, one of the things, not, not the majority of them, but one, was kind of a sticky work problem, uh, that I knew was gonna be on my plate all day and, And that I also wouldn’t have time to deal with it.
And that just made it so much harder to have on my plate.
Dan: Yep.
Raj: uh, it was between two of my meetings today, I was in the car. I called a member of our team and I said, Hey, here’s what this situation is. Can you even just get the ball rolling for me on contacting the person, starting the conversation that we need to.
You can CC me on it. If I need to jump in, I’m happy to, but can you just help me get started? And they were super willing. Like it was, it took me 15 minutes to, you know, get that cleared out. Um, at least off the task list for today. And it’s still, it’s kind of a sticky issue. It may continue to be an issue, but, um, at least making movement on it today.
Felt really good. And, and more importantly, I did not feel alone in it anymore. And,
um, that’s the difference between leadership and just being out taking a walk. I would’ve, I would’ve been walking out by myself with that all day today, I, and probably into tomorrow. And, um, and, and instead, I gotta bring somebody alongside me who’s gonna carry it with me. And that made my day and my week easier. And that’s what, that’s what’s happening here as well. And I’m, I’m not just excited about it because I’m involved in it. I, in fact, you know, as you know, I’ve, I’ve told you many times, like, I’m not, I’m not angling for anything here. I’m here to help if you want it.
But, um, you know, I, this all just started with an email from me to you saying like, Hey, I think I recognize what you’re going through.
Dan: Yeah.
Raj: I’ve been there. Do you wanna talk? And I definitely, if, if that was my angle to get on the podcast, it was a very poor one. So,
Dan: Very circuitous playing the long game
Raj: The long game
Dan: Yes, yes.
Yeah. I’m
Raj: uh, dating approach in Junior Hive, like trying to be the best friend until she decided she was in love with me and, uh, I can tell you what, it didn’t work then. So
Dan: Yeah. Didn’t work then. Not gonna work now but I just echoed that back. I’m excited. Um, I think I, I have grieved, I’ve shed tears and, um, and at this moment feels like this is, feels really good to think of. My schedule being a little more open to having less to carry, um, at this time when I’ve got plenty of other things to carry.
Um, and I think that that’s, um, a life I wanna say yes to right now and see what, um, yeah, what grows in the, in the space.
Raj: Yeah. You know, in, in the interest of serving the people who are listening, I, I feel the need to point out that I think one of the things that has maybe gone wrong, if we’re allowed to say that with the Meaning Movement podcast is, and, and honestly, the meaning, meaning movement as a whole is. The expectations of other people or the, uh, even the patterns of other people that, that we’ve tried to follow.
Um, you know, the way we launch a course, the way that, uh, the number of podcast episodes that need to be out to grow your audience or platform or whatever I’m doing, air quotes for anyone who’s just listening, um, and not, not watching the video. Um, you know, those things, the expectations of other people of how things should be.
Um, Drove the cost of the podcast. It drove, uh, maybe the lack of, of, uh, adoption on the, the course. And, uh, you know, even the name of the course, we talked about that, that maybe the, the name, the calling course was confusing, but, but somebody advised at one point not the calling. That, and, um, one thing I love about the bravery in just pulling back from all that is that everything that you and I have talked about for what might happen next, Is is kind of free from some of those constraints.
In fact, some of the new constraints are making us make better decisions. One of those is that we probably don’t return with, uh, two episodes a week. Probably not gonna do that because it’s costly to do that. And, uh, and so, uh, when, when then we started talking about, well, maybe it’s one episode a week, two episodes a month, um, Then we start talking about different content.
You know, it’s like if we’re only doing two a month, might change. The format might change what we talk about. Uh, do you wanna kind of share a little bit of maybe the direction that those things are going? I think because each, each episode will be a little bit more precious because, um, there’s not gonna be as many of them.
Uh, what kind of stuff do we like plan on talking about in those, those episodes? Or maybe how, not even specific topics, but how will the
Dan: Yeah, I feel like, and this kind of ties into like what’s, what’s next for listeners, right? Whether it be from the podcast or in the interim. I think we should, we should talk about both maybe as we kind of to move towards wrapping up here, um, with the podcast, I think leading first with what are the topics that matter most to the community and what the way we measure what matters to the community is one by.
What I hear from the community, I primarily hear when people respond to my emails, um, which doesn’t happen all that often. We’ve talked about that before. But when they do, I do read them and I try to respond as much as I can. Um, and so hearing, hearing, you know, just what the needs are and then secondly in lieu of that, or maybe in addition to it, is.
Is really thinking about who our target demographic is that we’ve identified, which, uh, more recently has been entrepreneurs that are building businesses that they want to, that they’re, that they’re passionate about. So, um, purpose-driven, passion-driven, mission-driven entrepreneurs. Um, and so thinking about the needs that they have, the problems that they face, the questions that they’re asking, and then working from there to then answer the question, what kind of content would serve, serve?
Person best, what would be most beneficial to them, which then instead of us being on a, you know, a, um, sprint to create, you know, two episodes a week as I have been over the last six months, it’s then let’s give more of that space to thinking, um, really strategically around what kind of content, how to find that content, what the formats would be, what the conversations would be in order to just make a better, um, listening experience that delivers more value and, um, keeps people engaged.
Um, and. That’s, you know, how I’m, how I’m thinking about it at this moment. And again, I imagine that in the interim months, I think even with the accelerator running, that’s gonna help help both of us really, um, understand better who the demographic is so we can really, um, hone in even more specifically to the needs of, of, um, the audience that we’re trying to reach.
Um, and so there is this kind of iterative approach that when the podcast comes back, and we might be defining that audience slightly differently than we are now.
Raj: Yeah. Uh, I also think that kind of hidden in what you said, and I, I wanna surface it just a little bit, is. Um, you know, you and I, I spent some time trying to rewrite the, the description for the Meaning Movement podcast as we were going through some branding stuff. And, um, and again, all, all that that branding work has, has led us to a place where we’ve been kind of stripping away things that don’t fit what the meaning movement
Dan: Mm.
Raj: And, uh, as I kind of think of like, okay, what, what’s the description gonna be in six months as we get even narrow or even clearer? What we do. And I think something in the Neighborhood of Meaning Movement podcast is a place for entrepreneurs who are meaning driven or mission driven, uh, and wear their heart on their sleeve unabashedly to be e equipped and encouraged to keep going.
Um, or something like that. You know, it’s like, I, I think when we get that clear and then, and then we make a promise that. episode that you listen to will deviate from that description, will deviate from that promise. That’s where I think the, the podcast actually starts to grow again, because when people understand what they’re gonna get and then they get it, they stick around and they tell their friends, and, um, I, I think this is a moment for us to kind of put down.
Again, those expectations of other people, the, the, the tactics of other people and say, for better or worse, this flag that we planted 10 years ago is who we are . And, and we believe strongly that there are thousands of other people out there like us. Entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs are not, to be honest, you know, people who, who are willing to say, I work really hard and I wear my heart on my sleeve.
I don’t believe that I have to check myself at the door when I go to work. And, and I want a place that gets that. The meaning movement is that and will be that when things return. And I’m, I’m really excited.
Dan: yes. Likewise, likewise. Um, it’s gonna be an adventure to, to, uh, to find out where, where, where we go from here. Um, and that’s, yeah. It’ll be
Raj: yeah. Well, in the meantime, as as this is the last episode for a while, um, you know, you asked me before we started, how do we want people to. Kind of respond to this information, what do we want them to do with it? And, um, I, I suggested that we really make this about the community that is here and that is going to be built.
Um, and so what do you think is a good way for people to, to kind of raise their hand and say that they are here and that they have a thought about how the community should be?
Dan: Yeah. Well, I think even just framing it in terms of community is really important. I’ve always, I mean, the, the reason I named it the meaning movement is because I want it to be bigger than me, and I want it to feel like a community. And I think that’s one thing that, um, I’m gonna be thinking about over the coming weeks and months is how do we facilitate that?
Process, how do we facilitate connection and community? Um, at minimum, I would just love to hear from people. So there’s two different ways that cut, three different ways I guess, that come to mind. One is, Just respond to my, my emails. Uh, I, I do, you know, I know I’m always begging people to, to reply it feels like.
Um, but I, I love hearing from people, love hearing, um, how this material, everything that we’re doing, all this building in public that we’re doing, how that lands, um, . And then secondly, you know, I’m on writing on LinkedIn a lot and Twitter a lot. Um, trying to find my voice on those platforms and find people, bring people together.
Um, and that’s, you know, between those platforms is how, how we’re, we’ve built the accelerator, found people to join the accelerator, which is gonna be a literal community of people, you know, together. And we’re gonna be looking for more ways to connect the dots, um, between, between, um, listeners, readers and, and, um, with each other.
And. . Those are some simple ways that I would just encourage people to respond. His hit, hit reply on an email. If you don’t have, if you’re not on the email list, you should be on the email list, but you can reach me at [email protected] if you’re not on that email list. And then follow me on LinkedIn and, um, respond there.
Uh, follow Raj as well. Um, I, I’m trying to get him to write more, and if you’re following him and commenting on his stuff, maybe he will. Um, and so those are a few, a few steps that people can take.
Raj: Yeah, I’m going to, I’m gonna challenge us to an even sharper, uh, call to action here. Um, I, I would say we’re gonna send out. A very short email when, when this podcast goes live. And it’s basically just gonna say, Hey, this episode talks about the changes that are coming to the meeting movement podcast and the community.
Um, when, when we relaunch in three to six months, what do you want to see? So when you see that short email in your in, Hit reply. Seriously. Like, don’t think about it. Don’t be like, oh, you know, there’s a lot of us on this email list. Everybody else will do it. I want you to do it. Whoever you are who’s listening, I want you to be the one who hits reply.
Even if you say, I don’t know, but I’m supporting you, Dan, or, uh, you know, just anything, literally just raise your hand and say you’re here. Um, there, there’s a, a few thousand people on the email list and. I mean, it is not uncommon to get zero replies to an email, so don’t, don’t think that everybody else is gonna do it.
This is like voting, you know, it’s like, uh, your voice literally
Dan: matters. Your voice counts.
Raj: Yeah. So when you get that short email, just at least that one, re reply to that one and, and tell us that when we relaunch the podcast, the kinds of things you want to hear. And I dare you to get super person. You know, like, um, how do, how do business people, uh, how do entrepreneurs keep their marriage from falling apart?
Um, you know, how, how do I deal with anxiety or depression and still lead a company? Come on. Like, we’re not gonna, we won’t use your name . Um, if, especially if you don’t want us to, um, you know, it’s, it’s just going to Dan’s inbox. But we wanna know those things. What, what challenges of entrepreneurship or, uh, even questions.
Like, I didn’t know. I didn’t really know how to celebrate, uh, as an entrepreneur. I didn’t, I didn’t know how to slow down long enough to identify something as a win. When, when there’s always more that you could do, how do you stop and do that? Um, ask those questions. Please hit reply on that short email.
That’s gonna be my challenge.
Dan: I love it. I love it. Thank you so much Raj, for this and for the journey we’ve been on. It’s been, uh, quite a journey so far and, um, excited to see what comes next.
Raj: Likewise. Thanks Dan
