[FTMM] Why You Don’t Have a Calling and How to Create Your Identity

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This is the fifth installment of a mini-series we are calling Finding the Meaning Movement.  This mini series will show in your feed with the letters FTMM in brackets.  

In this series, Dan welcomes Raj Lulla of Fruitful Design & Strategy as a cohost for some “Build in Public” style conversations about The Meaning Movement, the current state of Dan’s work with the Meaning Movement, and personal/ business / marketing problems that he’s seeking to solve for himself and on behalf of all of us.

It’s not necessary that you listen to the past conversation to benefit from this one, but it could help add some color to the conversation I’m about to share.

Listen in here:

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Software Generated Transcription:

Dan: And we’re back, Raj, how are you doing today?

Raj: Great. Thanks for having me.

Dan: Love it. Uh, thanks for doing this. This has been fun and, um, excited to dig in some more into finding The Meaning Movement and the work that we’re doing together. And this build in public style conversation we’ve been doing. So with that, where should we jump in?

Raj: So thought for a while now that the calling course might have the wrong name. And, uh, my, my reason for that is that, you know, when I was 25 or even 30, then something like the calling course, uh, uh, you know, the name calling course would maybe appeal when I’m still kind of finding myself and all that, trying to find my calling.

And, uh, but you know, now mid thirties, late 30. I don’t feel like I have time for calling , you know, it’s like calling is optional. I’ve even gotten calling wrong a couple of times in my life. And, and, but money is not optional. Uh, I have to have a job. I have people in my life who depend on me. Uh, I would even argue that meaning is not optional because it is hard to sustain a life.

Even if you’re making good money. If you don’t feel like you have meaning, but calling. Kind of seems like something you figure out after it’s all done. It’s like, oh, that was my calling. So,

Dan: There it was.

Raj: yeah. So, uh, tell me, do people often make this mistake when, when they hear that you have something called the calling course, do they, do they think about it in terms of sort of an ultimate life calling?

And they’re like, oh, I don’t need that. Or I don’t have time for that. Or I’ve already figured.

Dan: Yeah, this is, this is a great question. And I wish that I had a better answer for it. You were the first person to tell me that maybe the calling course has the wrong name, but, I think that, that, that data point is a little bit skewed because there’s just not a lot of people that are dialoging with me about my work.

You know, there’s people that join the course, there’s people who, you know, sometimes they’ll respond to emails when I’m have, you know, open enrollment for the course and say, you know, this, this looks good, but not right now, or I’ve already found my calling. Uh, but beyond that, like, and that’s some of the, the change, you know, that, that I’m making, even by doing this, this work with you is like, mostly it’s just me. Mostly it’s just me doing my thing. Um, and so, so that, I think that’s an important place to start the conversation. I do think that there have been some significant moments for folks who have had a strong feeling about the word calling and, um, What I invite them to, you know, through the process to understand that, you know, that you, that calling should be, um, that’s something that comes from you.

It’s, it’s, it’s, you’re calling it at, at its core is, is who you are. Um, but in order to get there, there is a lot of, for a lot of folks, especially folks with, with religious, you know, faith backgrounds, um, like that word can be really heavy and, um, I think it could be an obstacle for them to overcome. I, I know from my more from my one on one work, there was a, a couple people that I worked with around specifically around that idea and redefining that idea for them.

so I guess what I’m saying there is, I know that the content, if you get, so if the, the content can help with the definition of the word, um, and help people who have resistance resistance to that word, The question here is that, is, is that the right word? Which I think

I, I don’t know. And, and maybe, and maybe not.

Raj: yeah, it’s sort of like a lot of mental health where it’s like, if you would get treatment for your depression, it’d be easier to get treatment for your depression. You know,

Dan: Yes. Yes, exactly.

Raj: So the, the entry point has to be a little different if, if it’s like you need this in order to get the thing that you need.

Um, so I would argue that, you know, at least for this episode, let’s abandon the name, the calling course. And just talk a little bit about what it is and let’s start at. If somebody already has a sense of. Does this course work for them? First part, second part is if somebody doesn’t even believe in the idea of calling, especially in like kind of the religious or, uh, you know, ultimate kind of way, does this cor coursework for them?

So somebody who’s found their calling, uh, but, but struggling somebody who doesn’t believe in calling, but, uh, does this course work?

Dan: Yeah. Yep. Great, great question. So I wanna answer it in reverse order, because I think it’s easier that way. Uh, as far as someone who doesn’t believe in the concept of, you know, capital C calling, or you have a faith, you know, um, framework that they’re using to think about their life, uh, does it work? And absolutely it does.

And some of the, the, the journey is like, it’s really about identity and it’s about understanding who you are and you know, whether or not you. Faith background. And you use that lens to look at, look at the work. Uh, the, the work is still the same. Um, and that’s, you know, I don’t, I don’t wanna get into all, all of, like, I could talk theology about all of that.

If, if, if that’s a conversation people want to have, I don’t think that’s the convers conversation for now. Um, but for the folks that you know, that don’t have that framework, I, in some ways, I think it’s easier because sometimes that framework, that faith framework, the. The, you know, the idea that there’s this one, this is, this is how a lot of people with that faith framework think about calling that you have one thing that you are made to do in your life and you have to find it, but no, one’s gonna tell you where it is or how to look for it or what it feels like to find it, but you better find it or else.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it’s like, it’s just an impossible, it’s a trap calling it’s in some ways, feels like a trap. And so that goes to the, to the other question of someone who feels like they’ve, they’ve found their calling, I, I mean, yes, but I would feel like the, the presenting problem wouldn’t be that they.

Uh, don’t know what their calling is. It would more along the lines of B I know what I want to do, but I don’t know how to do it. And the calling course can help with that piece of the process. Um, but for most people who have a strong sense of a theological foundation or theological, uh, understanding of calling like that’s that, like I said, like that can sometimes get in the way.

And we kind of have to sometimes work on that concept first to get to the actual work of, of identity formation.

Raj: So, I mean, I would argue that perhaps you talked yourself into a, a trap here, but, but if this thing works for people who don’t believe in a theological or ultimate calling. and if it works for people who have already found their calling, but are having trouble living out their, you know, their purpose, their sense of purpose then, and it works for both of those audiences, then it’s possible that this doesn’t really have anything to do with calling at all.

that, you know, that it is about meaning, uh, and it, it is about, you know, living your life that is about identity. And I wanted to come back to that. , but it’s not really about calling. And the calling might actually be a word that gets in the way of people getting what they need from this course. Would you, would you agree with that?

Dan: I would agree with that. And, uh, I mean, I, I, I wouldn’t say that it’s not about calling cause I think it is, but it’s, but it is a reframing. So all that’s to say the word gets in the way. Yes. I totally agree. The, the, the difficulty, which I don’t know that we need, I need to explain myself on this because that’s not what you’re asking, but I feel like I feel the need to it’s like when I was naming the courses, like, how do we talk about how do we talk about this conversation?

What’s the shorthand, you know, what’s what’s what are the words that can, can help someone say, oh, this, this is something like, I know what this is about. I know what this will do for me. And that’s where it felt like calling is the closest or at the time felt like the closest

Raj: Yeah.

Dan: to be a shorthand into the conversation.

If that makes sense.

Raj: I get, I get why that is because calling is something that you can find. It’s something you can discover, meaning is something you experience. And so you can’t even really say find your meaning because you don’t know if you found it until you’re experiencing it. So I, I definitely, I definitely get that.

I do think that we can find a stronger name.

Dan: Mm-hmm.

Raj: doesn’t come with the baggage of religious experience or, you know, or even your religious experience. And so let’s talk about this, this identity piece. You, you mentioned it in the last episode that we, the finding the meaning movement episode that we did. And you mentioned it here.

Um, I, I get the impression that identity a little bit, like calling has this sense of. I already have an identity, you know, like I, I, I am a person. I literally have an I ID card. Uh, you know, my driver’s license and, and so I’ve got a job. I’ve got a family, all of those things kind of are my identity in some ways.

So, um, I would, I would maybe argue and, and push back on this, if you want to. I think for a lot of people, it’s not necessarily about finding their identity. And so, you know, if we were rename it, find your, your identity course or something that probably wouldn’t be a good rename either because a lot of it is about sort of rediscovering your identity in the midst of all of those things, like family and job and your relationships, all that that have kind of been added onto your life.

And then you have to. Reestablish reassert that identity in the middle of all of those obligations and those, all of those voices that kind of call you to be a different version of yourself. Would, would you, would you agree with that? How would you unpack that?

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, or I think you’re, you’re saying you’re saying it well. Um, but I think a way. Think about the process and, and the, the need for it is like you can, um, drop right into the middle of a story, you know, um, and, and see what a character is doing in that story. And over time, if you follow that character enough and see the actions that they’re taking, the choices that they’re making, you’ll begin to have an understanding of who they are, but.

Don’t have an understanding of is the reasons that they’re making those choices and the reasons that they’re showing up in the world in the way that they are. And so from a story using story as an analogy for, you know, for this, like, um, so that that’s the, the work, the work of the calling course, the work that I’m inviting people to is to understand the reasons that that character in that story is making the choices that they are, which it has to do with the experiences that.

Person has had that, that character has had in the past, which has shaped them into who they are today. And so for a lot of us who haven’t done much of that work in the past, you know, we we’re, like you said, we, I have a social security number. I have a driver’s license. I have a job. I have a, I have a, I have an identity, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have a, a, a firm understanding of.

Who you are or why, like what your motivations are, what is meaningful for you? And the, the reasons behind the choices that you’re you’re making. And the more you can understand those, those reasons, the more you can have, uh, choice in whether or not those are the decisions that you want to be making, um, and be, bring more intention to, to those choices.

Does that make sense?

Raj: Oh, totally. I, I think something this brings up is, is that, you know, calling sounds like it’s something for people who are sort of at the beginning of a journey. Okay. You know, Fredo is being called to destroy the one ring in the fires of Mount doom or wherever. And, and so like that’s a calling.

That’s what starts his whole journey.

Dan: yeah.

Raj: If he were to be called to something else in the middle of the journey, he would be abandoning something. He would be, you know, it, it would mess up his story, but, uh, this ID, this idea of identity and meaning, I, you know, I think of the James Bond movies and, you know, I I’m most familiar with the Daniel Craig series of, of James Bond movies.

And I personally think that Skyfall is one of the strong. One, you know, you know, episodes of, of that series because you finally get to figure out a little bit about why James is the way that he is and you know, that maybe his attachments to women and, uh, and even his work are informed by a lot of abandonment as a child.

And that’s why he’s not capable of these adult human relationships. And then, you know, in the last iteration of, of that series, we get a lot of payoff because of. And it’s almost like he starts to make different choices because of this UN understanding of himself. And that’s really gratifying for audiences.

Who’ve stuck with this character for, you know, 15 or so years. I, I don’t remember when the first one came out, but it’s been quite a while now.

Dan: Yeah,

Raj: And, and so I, I think that when we talk about, you know, sort of rediscovering your identity in the middle of the story, I think it’s a great analogy. Then it would help you to.

The right decisions to be more James Bond, you know, uh, to be the better James Bond into the next episodes. Uh, how many of our episodes you have left? And that saves a lot of that. You know, last episode we talked about failure. It saves a lot of failure when you know, what decision to make based off of your own values, your own story, uh, the, the people that you really do feel obligated to in a good way in your life, then, uh, then you don’t make as many kind of dumb mistake.

Dan: Yes, totally. I think, um, so much of this work at the beginning, the beginning of the process and the first, the first step of this method, this, this journey I often talk about as the meaning method that also doesn’t have to be the name that sticks, but, you know, so whether it’s in, in the calling course, whether it’s in a cohort, whether, whether it’s one-on-one the place, one of the first things that we do is really work on what are the voices that have shape.

The choices that we’ve we’ve made and identifying those voices. So then we can see, you know, again, like we’re making these choices, we know we can see the choices that we’re making, but we’re not always thinking about like who’s informing those choices and pushing us in those directions. And as we begin to put language to it, um, We begin to see like, okay, I see, I made that choice.

My story, I made that choice to be a youth pastor because my youth pastor told me that’s what I should do. Uh, he didn’t sit me down and say, here’s what you should do with your life. But like, that’s just a story. That’s a, a narrative that I’ve just, you know, absorbed from his influence on my life. Um, and there’s so many things like that, that we, that we take on and.

As we put language, as we put it into words, as we explore these, these stories, we begin to see ourselves. It’s it’s, it’s like you just kind of pulling back the curtain. You’re seeing like, oh, here’s all these connections that I can, uh, you know, unplug or sever those connections in some way. Um, or I can lean more, lean more into those, those connections.

And it’s not until you’ve. Like really put words to it that it really like, uh, comes into focus and, and becomes, you know, goes from being like flat to like three dimensional in a way. Um, and so I think exactly, like you’re saying, like you see, you see James Bond differently when you know why he is the way he is and he himself would see himself differently.

Once he’s come to understand how that trauma in his past is facing is shaping his present and the choices that he’s making.

Raj: Yeah. You know, I had a similar experience with, you know, ministry and, and, you know, feeling called to that. And it’s, it’s really hard when, when you don’t realize. The people who were calling you to those things, it was literally part of their job. Like it, you know, I’m not saying that that’s everybody who, who, who works in ministry or whatever, but, but when, you know, when you’re calling a 15 year old, 16 year old to do something with their life, they’re an impressionable age.

And, uh, and, and that person doesn’t realize that part of that convers. The other person is getting paid to have, even if they’re doing it out of a sincere conviction, all of that. But, you know, it’s like when in, uh, in the marketing world, a lot of times we, we see companies that wanna only focus on SEO or only focus on video, whatever, because that’s the thing that they’re good at.

and, and we use the analogy that, you know, when you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And so when you’re a video company, it looks like everything’s a video problem when you’re, you know, whatever, I, we can take that analogy wherever. But, um, but that, that’s kind of the same thing in, in some ways with people who speak into your lives, pastors or whoever, you know, if.

If your pastor thinks you should be a pastor, it’s the hammer looking at you like a nail. If, if you’re, um, you know, from a family of bankers and they all think that you’re perfect to be a banker it’s in part because they’re bankers and, and so unpacking those voices is important. And it’s really difficult because these are people that we attach to our identity to at an early age, before we knew better.

And again, not to say those people were wrong, but if that. Taken out and objectively looked at, then you can give more weight to those things than they deserve.

Dan: Yes. Totally. Totally. Yeah. And I think of it like, um, uh, like if you’ve ever done like a coffee tasting or a wine tasting or anything similar where it’s like, you’re trying to put words to something that like you’ve experienced before, but you’ve never actually put words to it. and, and so, but when you start, or like, even like reading, like the, the tasting notes, sometimes if you have like a nice bag of coffee, they’ll be like notes of strawberry and citrus or like whatever.

And it’s like, oh yeah, that kind of does taste like strawberries. Like, but until you put those words to it, you don’t notice it. And I think it’s very similar with your, your life. Like it’s already it’s happening. It’s there, it’s in the background. But it’s until you started to articulate it, that, that, uh, it it’s in that articulation, that you, then it assigns that meaning that then you can, um, gives you more choice over, you know, what, what direction you wanna go, what voices to listen to and, and who you wanna be in those, those choices that you’re making.

Raj: You know, it’s a fascinating activity for people who. Identify the voices that they’ve, they’ve kinda led into their lives. Social media is now, you know, roughly 10 years old, Facebook, you know, came out late, uh, you know, or like middle two thousands and, or, gosh, that means it’s 15 years old. That means I’m older than I thought.

Uh, but that’s given us a long time to be attached to people virtually, and I would be. That if you’re listening to this and you go through your Facebook friends list, who you’re following on Instagram, who you’re following on Twitter, I’ll bet that you’ve just collected people that are no longer relevant to your

Dan: Yes, I did this recently on my

Twitter. I UN unfollowed a bunch of people and it’s just so interesting cuz there, cuz it was in like chronological order and it’s just like,

I could see the phases of my interests over, over time as I’m like, oh this is when I was really into following photographers and here I was following authors and it was just, it was really interesting.

Raj: Yeah, I started my Twitter account, uh, or restarted it anyway, uh, about 10 years ago when I was working in communications for a Christian college and all of the people who followed me at that time that I followed back, uh, or 90% of them were. Pastors who were, who had written a book and they were trying to gain an audience.

Dan: Yes.

Raj: at this point in my life, no offense to anybody, I could care less. Like I, those are not the people that I choose to follow

Dan: today. Yes.

Raj: at this point in my life. Um, and, and so, you know, I went and unfollowed a whole bunch of people, but I did the same thing. There are many marketing agencies that I follow. There are many, uh, you know, photography, uh, your photographers that, that I followed because of who I was trying to be at that.

And, and right now my, my list is made up almost entirely of literary agents because I’m trying to sell my book, you know, and it’s, and you know, who knows in another 10 years, what, who I’m, I might be interested in following, hopefully will have a literary agent by then. If you’re one, please call me. Um, but, uh, you.

Yeah, that’s a fascinating way, a fascinating way to look and Twitter, like you said, is actually a really great place to do that because it’s chronological in the order that you follow people. And it is like seeing yourself in a mirror in a really interesting way. So, uh, there’s voices, uh, that, that, uh, that have shaped us.

What else, you know, inside this course not calling it, the calling course, you know, what the meaning method. I like that. Um, what, what else is in.

Dan: Yeah, there’s a couple, a couple major movements, uh, you know, voices, um, just digging into stories, um, doing a few exercises around like naming, like choosing, uh, maybe to be a way of, of saying it, um, like what are the formative stories that have shaped you?

Both like really positive experiences. What’s your definition of like a really good time of your life. And also what’s the definition of like a really bad time of your life. And out of both of those that shapes what like our desire for, for recreating those moments on the good side and avoiding, uh, pain, whether for ourselves or on the behalf of, on behalf of others.

And those can be really formative, um, places to look for themes then, um, In into like, here’s the kind of work that I want to be a part of it. Some somehow correlates often not one for one, but there is a correlation. There is a, a, a harmony, if you will, between what we desire to create in the world and those experiences.

In our past. So then we start looking for that and a big part of that is to be involved, to bring other people into your process. So in one, on one work, that’s me in, um, cohort work. It’s the cohort in, um, the, the, the course, what I’m the soon to not be called the calling course. Um, it’s, you know, bringing other, you.

Whether it be friends, um, mentors, um, people in your life that you trust into your process, sharing their stories and then asking them what they hear. Uh, because we’re so close to it. Oftentimes it’s like we can’t see the forest, you know, for the, for the trees and then starting to, to dream about the future and what it could look like to, um, to.

Intentionally bring, bring your focus, bring your energy, bring your activity, your work towards those themes and what you know, what different manifestations, um, that could take. So some creative, um, creative writing, experiments, you know, um, imagining experiments around those things, um, to then again, look forward.

And then that then shaped how we’re thinking about ourselves in the present.

Raj: You know, before Donald Miller wrote story brand, a building story brand, he wrote, he did a course called storyline and it was similar to just that past piece that you, that maybe past and future that, that you’re describing. And I did it at the time and you know, so this was probably. seven, eight years ago.

And it’s funny to look back now with the things that I had thought were formative experiences up to that point in my life. And. Now, some of those things don’t matter at all things, a couple things like, um, you know, one, I, I remember in particular was a particularly bad breakup and, uh, with, you know, a, a girlfriend before I had met my wife and, and that really studied out my mind because it was a very emotional experience and all of that.

And you know, now so much of my life, I’m 15 years into marriage. That, uh, has been just formed in this season. You know, it’s like pretty soon I’ll be married longer than I than not. And, um, and so it’s like that little blip on the radar actually doesn’t mean that much anymore. And so having, you know, this is the kind of process that people should go through every few years, because as you age.

You, you begin to see things with more perspective. And just like we talked about with James Bond, you can make that next choice faster and easier because you have a greater perspective on, on what your story actually is.

Dan: Yes. Yes. And, and, and what you’re saying is exactly true, cuz it’s because you’re becoming a different person. We’re always becoming a new version of ourselves and it’s not to say like, yeah, you’re gonna wake up one day and be, not be RA, but you’ll be a, a different, a more mature, you know, a, a RA with more experience under his belt.

And, um, and so it is very iterative and like this process is, you know, it is, um, I don’t know, you could think of it as somewhat postmodern in some ways that like you choose, you choose your meaning to some, to some degree, and it comes out of your experience. Um, and so by, by having more awareness of experiences like this, then you, you it’s almost like it kind of populates the menu of where you wanna put your focus.

Raj: You know, a good example of that, or maybe not a good example of that is really just in the last few years, I have been able to admit to myself. I really like musicals. I know it’s this like really silly thing, but, you know, took my

Dan: I love that.

Raj: to, Hamilton and, um, you know, we gotta see wicked last year at the local, uh, you know, Orhan here and.

And, you know, I’ve loved newsy since I was a kid and, you know, a bunch of others. And you know, when you’re, when you’re 22 and you’re, you know, trying to get a girl to notice you in certain crowds, it really works, uh, to, to say that you’re a big fan of musicals, but in others is just like, okay, I don’t know what to do with that.

Do you play sports? I don’t, you know, and, uh, So, but, but like you said, some of it is a little bit of just rediscovering of, you know, what, I’ve always liked this. And at one part time, you know, time in my life, I minimized this because it wasn’t convenient to finding a mate or, you know, yeah. It wasn’t cool.

It wasn’t cool with the crowd that I was hanging with. Um, you know, even, even some of. Political beliefs, which are kind of very messy and, and all over the map. There were times that I downplayed a lot of things that I considered to be compassionate because I was in an environment that was mostly filled with, uh, people who, who, you know, were more, uh, to one side or the other.

And it, like, I kind of denied my own thinking on those things, because it just was not popular to have those opinions where I was. And that’s, that’s where this, you know, identity discovery. Re-discovery. Is valuable again every several years, because it’s not, it’s a little bit that you’re becoming a different person, but a lot of it’s that you’re just becoming more of yourself.

Dan: Yes. Yes. Well, I think like a, a big, a big, uh, part of the process is this understanding that like of the past present and future. If I ask you the question, which one of those is, do you have the most control over? Most people would say either the present. For the future, but the truth is that it’s psychologically, it’s the past because we can tell our, our story in a thousand different ways and come to understand it in new ways, which then by changing our understanding of our experiences and what has happened to us and the things that we have done for better and for worse, it changes who we are, uh, how we think about the future, what we desire and what we’re chasing after in the future.

What, where that shapes then how we, how we live the present. And so it almost flips totally inverts how we typically think about ourselves and, you know, time and achieving things.

Raj: My story is a perfect example of that because, uh, the year I was 16 was the same year that I felt called to ministry at a camp, um, was, but it was also the same year that I joined the newspaper staff at my high school and became a kid. You not the marketing and advertising manager for my high school newspaper.

Dan: So great

Raj: I spent 10 years in ministry, and now I’ve spent about the same time in marketing. And there was a time, you know, right when I was switching from ministry to, uh, you know, marketing consulting that I felt I had betrayed my calling because, you know, I grew up in church and this meaning, or this moment was

Dan: common.

Raj: Uh, I felt this call when I was 16, all that. And it felt like, you know, marketing communications, that stuff was just an aberration. I’ll do this for a few years until I can get back into. Now being 10 years on the other side, it almost feels like the ministry thing was the aberration that there was a youth pastor who was paid to tell me that we needed more youth pastors in the world and that sort of thing.

And again, not, not had to be that cynical, but, um, you know, but that everybody in that side of the story had their motivations as well. And. and there’s easy ways to plot through even when I was little and my dad would encourage me to write and he would pay me to write for him that is actually as strong of a story and as strong of a thread through my life as.

Um, you know, as, as the faith part of it was at the time. So, uh, you can’t, yeah. You have a lot of control over how you formulate your story and what, what those things end up really meaning to you, which is why, again, we’re all part of this thing about meaning the meaning movement is cuz we need these reformulations.

We need somebody who’s constantly calling us to say, okay, sure. That was the story that we were telling at the time. But now that we have a little more experience, a little more clarity. What does this story actually look like now? And how do we make those clear James Bond decisions going into the future?

Um, and we need that every few years to, to recalibrate on those things.

Dan: Totally agree. Yeah. I wanna be that guy. That’s me.

Raj: You are that guy? It’s it? That, that’s the thing that I think has, has kind of driven me the most crazy through this whole thing is, you know, before I was exposed to the content that was in this course that I refused to call the calling course, um, is, uh, I, I was like, oh no, maybe he kind of missed the mark.

You know, that he, he was coaching people. And then he, he formulated this course and he just kind of missed, and, and it’s bad content when you and I went through the content and it it’s these things. I told you, I was like, I need this right now. You know? Um, I’ve, I’ve been in this career for a while now.

And, and I’m looking at, you know, into the next 10 years and my kids graduating high school and who I want to be for the, you know, until I retire. And, and it’s like, I’m, I’m kind of in that midway point where I need to. To reevaluate these things, especially because sometimes you just get in a survival mode with, you know, young kids at home or, uh, trying to keep a business from failing and, you know, and make it lucrative and all those things that you don’t stop to think about.

Okay. At what point of the story am I in? And, and is this really tracking with who I want to become who I am? So you are that guy, you, you have, you know, Like I said, looking at that content,

Dan: Yeah.

Raj: I, I would do it right now. Um, probably will in the next couple of months here with you is just, you know, we’re gonna re reformulate some things.


Dan: Yeah.

Raj: um, I would love to know, and this is gonna be probably the most, you know, small and petty thing I’ve ever asked people to do, but. Tell me in the comments. , you know, if you’ve, especially if you’ve been around here for a while, uh, you know, just, just tell me if, if you think it sounds like the calling course should be the name, the calling course, and if I’m just overblown in my opinions here.

or if you hear these things about identifying the voices in your life, um, you know, retelling your story, reformatting it to who you are and who you want to be now, uh, looking at your future, uh, inviting the people that you trust in your life right now, not necessarily the people who’ve spoken in your life before, um, to, to help you do these things and then making those next choices, experimenting, trying those things, kinda like we talked about in those last episodes.

Does that sound. Calling to you or does that sound like something else? Um, you know, , if you, if you help rename the meaning movement or the, you know, the calling course, then we’ll, we’ll send you a candy bar or something or, you know, it’ll

Dan: I love it. Well, and I think, yeah, like, like I think the questions are too, like, what is your, the first question is, you know, does, does it sound like calling and then two, like what would you, I think this is the question I really want to hear from people is what would you call it? Like, we’ve just spent the last 30 minutes talking about the content.

Like, what would you call this course? I think that’d be really fun to hear. So in the comments, you know, whether it’s on the show notes, or if we’re on YouTube, you can comment there, let us know.

Raj: Yeah. And if you, if this sounds appealing to you, whatever we end up calling it, uh, and you’re, you’re just hearing this for YouTube on the, on YouTube for the first time or on a podcast for the first time, please make sure you sign up to Dan’s, uh, email list to, to the meaning movement, email list, join this community.

Um, and I. I’m just a part of this community. So I’m, I don’t make any money by telling you to do this. Um, but join it because we, this is a thing that happens together. Um, you know, one of the names we kicked around at one point was the me the meaning mastermind, because it, you need perspectives from other people who are maybe a few years ahead of you, or even sometimes a few years behind you going no go after that dream or people who.

You know, your peers or, uh, you know, a different gender, a different, uh, uh, industry, whatever that, that can kind of speak into these things with you. So, um, yeah, if you’re not a part of the meeting movement already, uh, subscribe to the podcast and to the email list so that, you know, when this new thing is gonna launch, when, when we reformat this to, to be more useful at, to, to you all.

Dan: I, I will make sure to let you know if you are on those, uh, you know, subscribed. So, uh, make sure to subscribe RA, this has been so fun. Thank you so much. I’m so, so excited to see where this takes us. So, um, here’s to here’s to what’s to come

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